Passive or Active

[Guest Winningeleven]

Hi,

Can anyone advise me to go for passive or active ?I actually change my setup from active than to passive now thinking of changing to active again.

BTW i have the following

1. 4x75w PPI amp

2. 4x30w alpine V12 amp

3. 2x75w Kicker amp this one very old school very underrated IMHO

4. 1.5 farad cap

5. 1 set RF component speakers forget which model

6. 1 set Focal polyglass 165V1 component speaker

7. 1 set Mohawk component speaker i think 1 of the higher end model according to the audio shop donno got kena chop or not

8. pioneer AVX-P7300DVD + AVMP9000R hideaway processor.

9. 1 extra set of RF tweeters cause i like all those high pitch

SO guys pls advise especially all those expert pls help!!

BTW i listen mainly to chinese,english and hokkien pop songs dun really fancy all those Tecno song too noisy for me.

I'm more on SQ and i usuallly listen to all those DVD concert and MTV in 2 channel mode although my player can support up to 6.1 channel.I like to listen to all those vocal sounds especially some not very famous but got very nice vocal china singer.

Really newbie on all this ICE although i've change all my ICE since my 1st car but recently found out that my regular audio shop could not meet up with my expectation. They simply just do not how to tune the setup properly made some very expensive setup sounds very cheap.

Cheers

[Guest mekenics]

me 2 cents:

sell off......

the alpine amp

RF or poly glass comp set(depend on which set u like better!)

mohawk comp set

do these......

the extra tweets I am not in favour but thats personal...

tweet placement is more important if u ask me

take a seat inside unker lau hum ku car & u know wat i mean

run a pair of comps on active using the 4 ch ppi

the kicker amp to run a 12' sub in a sealed box

qn on purchases u hv to make:

can the pioneer p7300 run an active front stage?

i know the 7850 can but its asking is 3k+ new!

what is ur budget for a sub? prob smthg easy to pwr...

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Hi,

Can anyone advise me to go for passive or active ?I actually change my setup from active than to passive now thinking of changing to active again.

Cheers

Those in the music industries will tell you!

People listen to a pair of speakers with intergrated amp or pre/power/monoblock amp.

Best sell the idea to the general public 6.1, then they buy more speakers and amplifiers......wakakakakaka! ;D ;D ;D

On a serious note!

IMHO of 1Rp worth (1 Indonesian Rupiah= 0.02 cent),

Passive x-over has fixed set x-over pts, i.e x-over Hz, x-over slope and level.

The accoustic environment in a car is a nitemare. Such a confine space, lots of different materials and the driver sitting on one side as compare to the sweet spot in your home audio environment.

Active X-over beside letting U adjust the x-over pts. settings, it assign the respective Hz to your drivers i.e in a 2 way active - mid/woofers, tweeters and sub/subwoofers or a 3 way active - woofers, mid range, tweeters and sub/subwoofers.

You have more control over your music "destiny".

The major setback is off course is COSTS.

Costs in having a outboard processor if your HU can't do the work, extra amps and extra drivers (depending you want 2 or 3 way)

IMHO,

Since you are not into Home Theatre and lup vocals

I would always advise KISS (Keep It Short & Simple)

Run a 2 way active front with at least a sub with no rear fill.

Like what Ph@tboy has said, avoid putting up extra tweeters.

In the goode olde days of the 70s & early 80s.

Having a pair of 6" x 9" 3 WAY JBL in the rear and a pair of Pioneer

"tune-up super tweeters" in front that goes chiiiik.....chiiiik.....chiiiik was the trend. :D

BTW I also luv cina/asian singers like Emi Fujita & Choi Kum aka Cai Cin.

I have Choi Kum CDs when she was sweet 20s with a young voice

to now with her age and mellow voice.

I listen to all kind of music but I like best female vocals, house & trance.

For your old ICE, in the SG ICE forums, sometime they call me the karung guni Unker.

I take stuff by weight in kilo, lbs or katies........wakakakakaka! ;D ;D ;D

[Guest Winningeleven]

Yo thanks guys,

u guys r really pro.... BTW i forgot to add i do have a pair of 10"kicker made in usa sub.

Its power by my kicker 2 channel amp, so far no complaint on the bass as i dun like very heavy bass.

I really dun wish to give up my DVD player maybe will consider the 7850 to follow uncle kepiting1sg advices to run 2 way active with my Focal component speaker.

But my car intend to scrap end of this year thurs try to keep things simple or maybe wait untill i change car than see how....

Any good audio shop to recommend me if i really 1 2 run active but not too ex lah ;D

What else must i buy in order to run 2 way active huh?

Actually i still love my current stuff as i've been using them for around 5 years liao so no intention of selling them.

My question is can my current setup run active as what uncle kepiting1sg suggest dun wish to spent more $, trying to cut cost cause promised my son to bring him for an overseas holiday.

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Hi Winningeleven,

I was joking nia about scrapping your old ICE.

I don't do that myself and I have amps that I have been keeping for >20 yrs. ;D

Keep your pioneer AVX-P7300DVD + AVMP9000R

My ICE have been shifting house each time I changed my ride.

Keep your Focal Component set to be driven by your PPI 4 x 75W amp,

kicker amp to drive your kicker sub. Voila, you have 2 two way active setup.

I dun have have information on your AVMP900R ??? but I am incline to think it should be able to do your processing job for a 2 way set-up.

Go & ask your installer for his 2nd opinion.

[Guest Winningeleven]

kepiting1sg ]

Hi Winningeleven,

I was joking nia about scrapping your old ICE.

I don' wrote:

http://www.yourcarparts.co.uk/trolleyed/images/products/avxp7300dvdavmp9000r.jpg[/img]

My ICE have been shifting house each time I changed my ride.

Keep your Focal Component set to be driven by your PPI 4 x 75W amp,

kicker amp to drive your kicker sub. Voila, you have 2 two way active setup.

I dun have have information on your AVMP900R ??? but I am incline to think it should be able to do your processing job for a 2 way set-up.

Go & ask your installer for his 2nd opinion.

BTW how do i know if my HU can support active or not huh?

This is the spces for the AVMP9000R http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=AVMP9000R

Thanks 4 ur help :

[Guest kepiting1sg]

BTW how do i know if my HU can support active or not huh?

This is the spces for the AVMP9000R http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=AVMP9000R

Thanks 4 ur help :

The link to the specs is not helpful enough.

It shows you have

"6 RCA Preouts (FR+FL+RR+RL+Center+Subwoofer)"

It does not show if there are any x-over controls over the 6 preouts.

I guess the one preout for your subwoofer will be helpful.

Look through your owner manual and see what it said.

[Guest Winningeleven]

Hi uncle kepiting1sg ,

Sorry to trouble u again :-[, I've just installed the Alpine IVA-D100E + H701 processor.

May i know if i run 2 way active can i still installed the rear and centre speaker in passive mode?

I like to try out active but dun really want to lose the 5.1 channel capabilty.Or maybe should i upgrade to 3 way active?

My friend got a set of dynaudio 3 way component and he is willing to sell it to me at a very special price cause he is upgrading.So actually quite tempted to try out 3 way :laugh:

Anyone know where to custom made those mid and tweeter pod which u can place on the dash board,heard from my friend JB is selling very cheap but dunno where in JB, anyone able to help?

Actually i'm quite impress with the sound of the Alpine IVA-D100E + H701 processor,on the AV side there is nothing to shout about but certainly better than those China made dvd player.

The Dvd player cost me $1600 but Alpine is not even giving us a remote control,we have to buy it as an optional item, or is it just my set that is having a missing remote,my audio shop say mine was the last set so i couldn't check another set to see if it comes with remote.My friend with a IVA-D200 confrim with me his set dosen't come with it.

Another thing i really dun understand is that why alpine Dvd has only 1 aux input!! That's mean i can't installed my rear view camera and TV mobile at the same time, the audio shop advise me to give up the rear camera , is there any way to keep my both my camera and tv mobile?

Hope all the expert out there can give me some advise.

Thanks

[Guest kepiting1sg]

IMHO

>>>>>May i know if i run 2 way active can i still installed the rear and centre speaker in passive mode?

I like to try out active but dun really want to lose the 5.1 channel capabilty.Or maybe should i upgrade to 3 way active?<<<<<

1. If it's Home Theatre that you want and still enjoy your music, this is all possible with the very flexible H701 processor.

You can run active and still runs 5.1 channel which the H701 supports

Dolby Digital®, Dolby Pro-Logic® and DTS® Decoding

2. You have number of outputs = 8 (2 Front1 L/R, 2 Front2 L/R, 2 Rear1 L/R, 1 Center, 1 Subwoofer) although H701 specs says that but it only mentioned 6 pre-outs. (Maybe it does not include preout for center & subwoofer channel. Pls. check with your installer)

3. Using your H701 signal outputs

a. U use your 2 Front1 L/R & 2 Front2 L/R outputs for your 2 way active front component.

b. For your center speaker whether you run active or passive, U still need one channel of amp to power it up. I suggest U go active and let the H701 center speaker output to take care of the signal X-over Hz.

c. For the rear speakers you use the Rear L/R output.

You can buy a pair of rear surround speakers for this purpose

and run active or you can run your rear component speakers in passive

like surround speakers but make sure you put your tweeters as near as possible to the mid woofers. (So that you still can do some sort of "decent time alignment" for your rear component speakers)

d. Then you use the last subwoofer output channel to your subwoofer.

4. For amplification:-

You need 4 channels for your Front L/R 2 way active.

You needd 1 channel for your Center speaker.

You need 2 channels for your rear surround speakers or to run your 2 way component in passive like your surround speakers.

You need 1 channel to run your subwoofer.

This way you use up all 8 channels available on your H701.

X-over Hz & Time Alignment is possible for the above configurations & you should expect your installer to be able to a decent job tuning your 5.1 channels.

>>>>>>My friend got a set of dynaudio 3 way component and he is willing to sell it to me at a very special price cause he is upgrading.So actually quite tempted to try out 3 way<<<<<<

After configuring above 5.1 channels you are short of 2 channels if you want to run 3 way front active.

If you want to run 3 way front active then forget about running 5.1 channels

i.e no surround rear speakers.

Other considerations to discourage you running 3 ways front.

1. Difficult to tune to get your staging i.e height, depth, width and center image rite.

2.Extra channels of amplification.(1 more 2 way amplifer needed)

3.Dynaudio are known to perform "well" with higher WRMS (you need more "powerful amp")

My recommendations, 2 way front & run 5.1 and forget about 3 way active front.

>>>>>>Another thing i really dun understand is that why alpine Dvd has only 1 aux input!! That's mean i can't installed my rear view camera and TV mobile at the same time, the audio shop advise me to give up the rear camera , is there any way to keep my both my camera and tv mobile?<<<<<<<

Get a rear view mirror monitor for your reverse camera or another stand alone monitor.

I hope my humble opinion helps!

Cheers!

[Guest Winningeleven]

Wow u r a real pro man, ur advise certainly help me alot,as u see i've 2x 4 channel amp and a 2 channel amp, so i think i would try out front 2 way active and rear in passive mode.

Agreed with u that the dynaudio need very powerful amp to run so might put it aside 1st.

My installer ask me to go back in a week time to tune the system using RTA, so if i run 2 way active, when listening to music will i heard music coming out from the centre and rear speakers? I feel very wierd if i heard music from the centre .

Any place to recommend to installed the standalone moniter or rear mirror?Around how much?

Cheers

[Guest kepiting1sg]

My installer ask me to go back in a week time to tune the system using RTA, so if i run 2 way active, when listening to music will i heard music coming out from the centre and rear speakers? I feel very wierd if i heard music from the centre .

Any place to recommend to installed the standalone moniter or rear mirror?Around how much?

Cheers

>>>>>so if i run 2 way active, when listening to music will i heard music coming out from the centre and rear speakers?<<<<<<

IMHO

If you are using 2 way active front and properly tuned, for vocal you should be

hearing the singer voice from the center (if the singer during recording is in the center of the sound stage). This is what time alignment is all about. In the car you sit on the right and not in the center to listen in your "sweet spot".

In time alignment, it delay the sound of your right speakers (2 way active i.e tweeter & mid-woofer) to your right ears and the left speakers sound reaching your left ear at the same time thus giving the perception that the singer is in the center of your dashboard.

You have to take the length & depth of your dashboard as the sound stage.

Imagine U are in a concert hall but you are not so lucky to have a center seat

and you sit on the right side of the concert hall.

So when you are watching & listening to the singer in the concert hall, you turn your head slightly left to see the singer singing in the center of the concert hall stage.

If there is a band on the stage of the concert hall playing different instruments, the sound should appear whether they are standing or sitting right or left or off right or off left and not necessary in the center.

Therefore if a properly well tuned car audio system, you should be having the width, depth, height of the sound stage.

The tonality of the sound should be as accurate as the actual recorded sound i.e a bass guitar, a saxaphone, a piano should as accurate as possible.

On the sound stage with the different musician standing or sitting at different position in width & depth, there should be "layering" in the music.

Likewise if there are a few singers, they should heard at different positions & depths of your sound stage.

So music & voice will not necessary comes from the center of your sound stage.

For the rear speakers, in your case they should be used as rear surround speakers like in your 5.1 system. They should not be heard during normal listening to music.

If you want them to use them as part of your hi-fi system, I recommend the low pass Hz below 300 to 400Hz to be cut off and the high pass Hz above 1.5KHz - 1.8KHz should be cut off too i.e leaving you only with the mid range Hz.

The rear speakers sound should be faded out to an optimum sound level and you should not hear the sound from the rear speakers coming to your ears from your driver's sitting postion. This is what people call to assist to lift up the front sound staging. If you hear sound from your rear speakes, it will "confuse" the front sound stage.

I myself do not use rear speakers. Just a simple 2 way front and a pair of 10" subwoofers behind.

RTA is to determine the peak & valleys of in your sound Hz response range.

The rule of thumb is usually to cut then to boost.

Your H701 will have enough EQ bands to do the job

Tuning the Hz range flat is not what you want to listen to.

Usually there will be a RTA setting what we call sometime as the "house curve"

or "refrence curve" or whatever you want to call it.

From there maybe you may want to put up another setting to "jazz it up" or "spice it up" to listen to trance, house, etc., or another setting from the house curve, EQ it to listen to "lay back music".

For my ride I've the following settings:

1: Preferred listening setting

2. Trance & House setting

3. "Layback" setting (listening to old recordings)

4. IASCA car audio competition setting

5. Time alignment for left passenger setting.

For the rear view mirror monitor, please check with our forum kaki nick 4eggs aka Alan. He drives a W211 with number plate 8888.

I think he also brings in these monitors & reverse cameras.

Last known contact hp: 96678989

Or you can search for him in the classified section of this forum and PM him.

Cheers!

[Guest Winningeleven]

so will u be attending the next meet up?

Would really like to meet up with u to learn how to tune the system, maybe u can help me tune mine :laugh:

My system is not tune yet, so i still can hear the rear speaker, i actually turn off the rear speaker as i myself find it very confusing too.

My installer told me if i dun want to installed additional moniter, i can buy a aux-in spliter and a delay, so the moment i engage reverse, the screen will automatically switch to rear view camera.Anyone know where to buy this Spliter and delay?

Thanks for all ur info, anyway i will print out this page and bring it to my installer and ask him to tune according to what u post.Haha...............

Thanks

[Guest kepiting1sg]

so will u be attending the next meet up?

Would really like to meet up with u to learn how to tune the system, maybe u can help me tune mine :laugh:

My system is not tune yet, so i still can hear the rear speaker, i actually turn off the rear speaker as i myself find it very confusing too.

My installer told me if i dun want to installed additional moniter, i can buy a aux-in spliter and a delay, so the moment i engage reverse, the screen will automatically switch to rear view camera.Anyone know where to buy this Spliter and delay?

Thanks for all ur info, anyway i will print out this page and bring it to my installer and ask him to tune according to what u post.Haha...............

Thanks

Tell your installer that you wan the following:-

1. Your front stage as wide as between your 2 wind mirrors outside, as deep as to the front of your bonnet 3 pointer star and height just below your eyes level.

2. You want your center image to be focussed and appear as if it's in the center of your sound stage. The singer mouth must appear as small as you put your 5 fingers together.

3. The tonality must be accurate. Cai Cin must sound like Cai Cin and not like J. Lopez or some chow A Qua......wakakkaka! ;D

4. Cai Cin should be singing as if live in front of you in the center of your sound stage and her voice is clear & distinct and U can hear when she swallow her saliva or taking a breadth and not singing as if she has a pebble or two in her mouth. ;D

4. The bass Hz to be deep and chit liap chit liap. 8)

Then your installer will ask you how much U wanna pay him before he tew me and later tew you upside now too.........wakakakak! ;D

Pls. dun qoute me! The chase to attain ICE nirvana is elusive. ;D

[Guest Winningeleven]

Haha........ i be going down for my RTA 2morrow(29/07/07).

So u know exactly what kind of music i want, think ill be asking them to tune according to what u mention here, so how do i tell them to set the rear and centre speaker huh?

Any other thing i need to inform them or u have anything else to add on?

Pls advise ........

Thanks for all your detail explaination.........

[Guest Winningeleven]

Hi need some advise regarding my IVA-D100 and H701, they are now connected using Ai-net,there is a option for me to connect using optical cable but i've to buy the cable.

So what is the diff between connecting using Ai-net and Optical cable?

Any improvement if i connect using optical, i mean in terms of sound quality or rather any diff at all? what is the est cost of the optical cable and which brand is good or i've to used those from alpine?

Sorry for so many question.

Thanks

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Hi need some advise regarding my IVA-D100 and H701, they are now connected using Ai-net,there is a option for me to connect using optical cable but i've to buy the cable.

So what is the diff between connecting using Ai-net and Optical cable?

Any improvement if i connect using optical, i mean in terms of sound quality or rather any diff at all? what is the est cost of the optical cable and which brand is good or i've to used those from alpine?

Sorry for so many question.

Thanks

IMHO

Save your money on your car mods, forget about the optical cables.

For your rear & center speakers, turn your installer if it's possible,

you dun wanna hear sound from them when you are listening to normal music and only wanna hear them when playing home theatre mode Dolby Digital®, Dolby Pro-Logic® and DTS® Decoding.

Cheers!

[Guest Winningeleven]

so u are saying not much diff if i change to optical cable right?

I read up some info from the web,it says the optical cable is for non alpine HU to connect cause they dun have ai-net. Is this true that there is no diff?

[Guest kepiting1sg]

so u are saying not much diff if i change to optical cable right?

I read up some info from the web,it says the optical cable is for non alpine HU to connect cause they dun have ai-net. Is this true that there is no diff?

IMHO,

Dun be itchy kar chng!

Please dun waste your money.

Money not so easy to earn! ;D

[Guest Winningeleven]

Haha.....my installer also say that i very backside itchy, end of the year want to change car still want to change Hu.

BTW just got my set up tuned, now i can finally hear the singer singing in the centre of my car,

But i guess i need to get used to it because suddenly all the sound came from the centre i keep looking at the centre while driving :laugh: afterall i'm getting used to listening to sounds coming out from front, back left and right.Haha......

I think active really bring out the front stage and i really love the sound now, will upgrade to 3way once i change my car.

Now i only have 2 setting in my car, 1 is for listening to CD with front 2 channel+ sub, another 1 is 5.1 with centre and rear speaker, hope u can help me tune a few more setting to listen to maybe techo or those classical music

cheers

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Haha.....my installer also say that i very backside itchy, end of the year want to change car still want to change Hu.

BTW just got my set up tuned, now i can finally hear the singer singing in the centre of my car,

But i guess i need to get used to it because suddenly all the sound came from the centre i keep looking at the centre while driving :laugh: afterall i'm getting used to listening to sounds coming out from front, back left and right.Haha......

I think active really bring out the front stage and i really love the sound now, will upgrade to 3way once i change my car.

Now i only have 2 setting in my car, 1 is for listening to CD with front 2 channel+ sub, another 1 is 5.1 with centre and rear speaker, hope u can help me tune a few more setting to listen to maybe techo or those classical music

cheers

Congrats!!!!

[Guest Winningeleven]

Hi uncle kepiting1sg ,

Thanks for your guidance, since i began my quest to upgrade to active u have been a great help to me,actually most of my setup is base on your advise, from my old HU to a headunit that can support HU.

I print out all ur reply u post here and show it to my tuner,even he comment u r a expert base on ur reply.haha so he won't dare to ma-ma-hu-hu when tunning my system cause he know i actually got a frd who knows alot regarding ICE.

Btw can i learn how to tunned my system from u ?

Would very much like to learn how to do simple tunning but need to find a expert like u to teach me. If u willing to be my SHI FU pls let me know than i can meet up with u to learn a few trick from you ;D

Cheers

[Guest Winningeleven]

Oh 1 more thing to add,

I'm currently on 2x kicker free air sub,

My installer advise me to change to box type,as the vibration is too strong, i do have a single sub box for the kicker, but didn't installed it cause i thought its too bulkly ,but turn out free air also used up alot of space because the cone of the sub obstract the boot quite abit,so what is your advise on this?

Is it a good idea to change to a single sub with box in terms of SQ?

Anyway i dun listen to tecno,just like some base when listening to pop.

P/S: i need some space for a golf set and some small item in my boots.I think IMHO still can squeez a golf set if i opt for the box.

Cheers

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Oh 1 more thing to add,

I'm currently on 2x kicker free air sub,

My installer advise me to change to box type,as the vibration is too strong, i do have a single sub box for the kicker, but didn't installed it cause i thought its too bulkly ,but turn out free air also used up alot of space because the cone of the sub obstract the boot quite abit,so what is your advise on this?

Is it a good idea to change to a single sub with box in terms of SQ?

Anyway i dun listen to tecno,just like some base when listening to pop.

P/S: i need some space for a golf set and some small item in my boots.I think IMHO still can squeez a golf set if i opt for the box.

Cheers

IMHO

Free air subs when "properly installed" - i.e boh chow hong...hehehhe!!! is as good as sub/subsin sealed box/boxes.

A sub is a must whether you listen to techno, classical or any music. Without a sub, you will lose the low Hz anything from 20Hz to 60Hz. This is the Hz range that gips U the oomp and the "meat" of the music.

Back to sub. If you wanna save space, use a Image Dynamic IDQ12 i.e a 12 inches sub in a sealed box or 2 IDQ 10" in seal boxes. You can either hang them up or push them right into the deepest corner of your boot space. These subs dun take up much space.

A IDQ12 takes up a recommended box size of 0.85 cu.ft i.e less than 1ft x 1 ft x 1ft box.

A IDQ10 takes up a recommended box size of 0.5 cu.ft. 2 boxes only takes up 1 cu.ft

1 10" sub is not enough and you are better off with 2 (Ph@tboy uses 2 of these subs with no regrets). However a 12" sub bass Hz will go lower than 2 10".

Conclusion:- I recommend you use 1 12" IDQ12V2 D2 i.e double voice coil 2 ohm.

With a single sub with DVC(Double Voice Coil) 2 ohm, you can wire it into either a 4 ohm load which usually you can drive it with a bridged "normal" 2 channel amp.

Or wire it into a 1 ohm load and use a Class D amp stable to 1 ohm mono to drive it.

There's no SQ diff. bet a DVC 2 ohm or 4 ohm. It only helps you to configure your amp/amps to drive them.

Hope this Rp 1 of opinion helps. ;D

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Hi uncle kepiting1sg ,

Thanks for your guidance, since i began my quest to upgrade to active u have been a great help to me,actually most of my setup is base on your advise, from my old HU to a headunit that can support HU.

I print out all ur reply u post here and show it to my tuner,even he comment u r a expert base on ur reply.haha so he won't dare to ma-ma-hu-hu when tunning my system cause he know i actually got a frd who knows alot regarding ICE.

Btw can i learn how to tunned my system from u ?

Would very much like to learn how to do simple tunning but need to find a expert like u to teach me. If u willing to be my SHI FU pls let me know than i can meet up with u to learn a few trick from you ;D

Cheers

I am no sifu but people call me lat fu....wahahhahaa ;D

I dun have a pair of golden ears so I won't be able to tune for you.

I send my system to the installer for tuning and I know what I want. ;D

[g8crasher]

I am no sifu but people call me lat fu....wahahhahaa Grin

sifuu... just met with edmund yesterday. sends you his regards. am taking over his 12" xtant sub so yesterday go kaypoh abit see his sytem keke ;D