Torque of kompressor vs Torque of CGI

[Guest vincemerz]

Guys,

For Torque of CGI it kicks in when a certain range like probably between 1600 to 4200...

For torque of Kompressor is about 2,800 to 4,600.

So how do you guys explain the CGI turbo lag since it kicks in faster then kompressor?

[Guest hannson]

vincemerz wrote:

Guys,

For Torque of CGI it kicks in when a certain range like probably between 1600 to 4200...

For torque of Kompressor is about 2,800 to 4,600.

So how do you guys explain the CGI turbo lag since it kicks in faster then kompressor?

hi

do you mean you experience turbo lag on your CGI? BTW, which CGI is your drive?

[Guest benico]

That's the difference between supercharged and turbocharged... I still love my supercharged Kompressor

[Guest vincemerz]

benico wrote:

That's the difference between supercharged and turbocharged... I still love my supercharged Kompressor

That's what I thought... But I don't understand that kompressor is kick in later at 2800 then shouldn't it lag more?

[Guest vincemerz]

hannson wrote:

hi

do you mean you experience turbo lag on your CGI? BTW, which CGI is your drive?

Be it my c180 cgi or e250 cgi all will lah

[Guest hannson]

vincemerz wrote:

Be it my c180 cgi or e250 cgi all will lah

hmmm... can i clarify that:

1. you tried driving a C180 Kompressor and it felt that it has less "laggy feel" to the C180 CGI?

2. were both cars tested in S or C model?

Cheers

[Guest vincemerz]

hannson wrote:

hmmm... can i clarify that:

1. you tried driving a C180 Kompressor and it felt that it has less "laggy feel" to the C180 CGI?

2. were both cars tested in S or C model?

Cheers

Yup found kompressor like no lag leh... But then again its quite sometime back.. May need to re visit..

[Guest jtang]

Tried both...turbo less lag definitely. Best of all...no irritating whining compressor sound in the CGI model.

[Guest Welbo]

In theory, Kompresspor being a supercharged pully system will have almost zero lag while a turbo being a compressed air generated power will have a certain amount of lag. One of the way to solve lagging issue in a turbo engine is by having twin turbo, one smaller turbo for the lower rpm and then followed by a bigger turbo. Good example will be the BMW 335i twin turbo technology. Another method will be VW engine using the Twin Charge engine of using both supercharger and turbo charger in the 1.4litres twin charge system.

This is also the main reason why Audi latest S4 3.0litres uses Super Charging system instead of Turbo Charging system which they had been very successful in the past performance models application like the older RS4. The biggest advantage is the elminiation of the turbo lag that have plague all the owner turbo charging Audis.

In short, the CGI engine being a small 1.8litres engine with turbo charging will definitely have a certain amount of lag. For me, nothing beat big displacement like most of the V8 NA engine. No lag, no heating problem, instantenous response and easy to maintain. Also explain the reason why Ferrari, Lambo, M3, AMG C63 and B7 RS4 and RS5 continue to use big NA engine for their performance range. However due to emission issues, the big NA engine will be a thing in the past as the latest trend is to go to turbo charging technology for cleaner emission except maybe the Ferrari and Lambo type of cars........

[Guest kepiting1sg]

jtang wrote:

Tried both...turbo less lag definitely. Best of all...no irritating whining compressor sound in the CGI model.

Coming from a W203 C180ML & FL W211 E200K

Agreed on all counts!!!!!!!:hand::hand::hand:

The SC really KPKB especially on high rev!

[Guest vt5sport]

hannson wrote:

hmmm... can i clarify that:

1. you tried driving a C180 Kompressor and it felt that it has less "laggy feel" to the C180 CGI?

2. were both cars tested in S or C model?

Cheers

I was given a C200K as a loan car for a wk by C&C. I found it lagi laggy and had to drive it on "S" mode all the time to gain better responsiveness. In the CGI, while there is a bit of lag, I can still drive it on "C" mode most of the time without any frustration.

[Guest hannson]

kepiting1sg wrote:

Coming from a W203 C180ML & FL W211 E200K

Agreed on all counts!!!!!!!:hand::hand::hand:

The SC really KPKB especially on high rev!

LOL I like the KPKB description LOL...

The reason why I asked if anyone had tested back-to-back these 1.8L CGI vs 1.6L Kompressor is because ... turbo lag is usually apparent on bigger cc with bigger turbo cars.

The compression ratio on these cars have to be reduced in order for these cars to hit higher psi.

As a result, the "NA" part of the car's performance (i.e. before the turbo spool from the exhaust pressure), would be worse off compared to a similar cc NA car.

There's another way some manufacturers have tried to reduce lag. kepiting1sg has mentioned 2 methods. A 3rd method is to continue to have high compression ratio, but have a little forced induction. This is known as Light Pressure Turbo.

The "lag" that some drivers/owners may feel on the turbo cars may actually be a perceived lag because of the smooth torque transition from standstill.

In any case, perception is truth... and the best way to have a better perception is go test drive both cars back-to-back.

Wanna organise a GTG to go C&C to test drive both models?

[Guest mile]

Max torque figures of CGI vs Kompressor is one thing.

Looking at the torque curve at all revs is another.

turbo charge max torque usually peak at low rpm if tuned that way ... but the curve is usually steep, thus high/max torque comes in and shove you.

SC max torque arrives more gradually and at higher rpm ... hence perceived lag is less.

It's all relative.

[Guest hannson]

mile wrote:

Max torque figures of CGI vs Kompressor is one thing.

Looking at the torque curve at all revs is another.

turbo charge max torque usually peak at low rpm if tuned that way ... but the curve is usually steep, thus high/max torque comes in and shove you.

SC max torque arrives more gradually and at higher rpm ... hence perceived lag is less.

It's all relative.

er.. just so I understand correctly... what we're saying here is:

A. "turbo charge max torque usually peak at low rpm if tuned that way" vs

B. "SC max torque arrives more gradually and at higher rpm".

Wouldn't that mean that from idling rpm to the first e.g. 2000 rpm,

A. turbo will peak faster and hence more power felt quicker, whilst

B. supercharger's torque will only come later... which.. should translate to supercharger will have "perceived" lag from idling rpm?

[solar]

so okay.. my 'new' car's (pre-fl w204) honeymoon period is over..

the whining sound is getting irritating, especially when pushed.

actually i can't really tell where it come from.. assuming it is from the supercharger, it should be from the front (engine) right?

somehow i think it is nearer around the cabin.. do u guys think is the transmission??

just one year old only.. shouldn't be right?

[HYM]

I actually like the SC whine leh...reminds me of the old SC jaguars...

[g8crasher]

so okay.. my 'new' car's (pre-fl w204) honeymoon period is over..

the whining sound is getting irritating, especially when pushed.

actually i can't really tell where it come from.. assuming it is from the supercharger, it should be from the front (engine) right?

somehow i think it is nearer around the cabin.. do u guys think is the transmission??

just one year old only.. shouldn't be right?

Whining is part of the unique sound characteristic of a supercharged setup.

Transmissions are more fond of crunching

Having said that, if you come across any grinding noises emanating from the supercharger in future -> especially if it has been driven hard <-, be prepared to swap it out for another unit.

You may wish to extend life by draining and refilling your supercharger oil every 60,000 kms (given our start stop traffic conditions here) to prevent it from turning to sludge. Contrary to popular understanding, the Eaton M45 supercharger unit in your car DOES NOT RUN OFF ENGINE OIL. The M45 is a sealed unit and there is a specific oil you have to use. MB application should be around 135ml and is refillable via undoing an allen bolt in snout faceplate of the supercharger which will require removal of the pulley.

Unfortunately there are very VERY few qualified people here that are able to correctly diagnose and rebuild superchargers so the tendency for any given workshop to tell you to swap for a new unit is almost always high.

[Cklasse]

My W203 wasn't pushed too hard by me, only occasional trashing for a good 200,000 km and the supercharger works problem free. So if taken care, this supercharger is a near maintenance free unit.

Whining sound is normal and I like the sound, which I don't hear now in me W204 7gtronic.

[solar]

thanks guys for your replies.. it actually reminds me of my kid's rc toy car LOL!

yes, it only appear when the car is pushed. gone off during cruising.

as long as it is not a problem, i'm fine...never driven a sc car before.. even my previous turbo legacy only have a very slight non-noticable psst sound

maybe got ghost close eye/ear.. did not take too much notice of the sound when i test drove the car.

@g8crasher: lucky me.. it is not crunching.. it was just whining when i pushed it.. :-P

[mercbumpkin]

I love the whining sound too! Having driven the cgi as well, the cgi still feels more torquey at lower rpm

[g8crasher]

@g8crasher: lucky me.. it is not crunching.. it was just whining when i pushed it.. :-P

Take it easy, enjoy the drive.

[jon]

Whining from the car is fine for me.... as long as is not whining from my wife/mum....

[Cklasse]

My W204 has these additional features too. The left side will sound when speed limit is exceeded and when I accelerate too fast.

[HYM]

My W204 has these additional features too. The left side will sound when speed limit is exceeded and when I accelerate too fast.

and when you falling asleep at the wheel, will shake you awake right?

[g8crasher]

My W204 has these additional features too. The left side will sound when speed limit is exceeded and when I accelerate too fast.

Clarification : Passenger seat occupant with natural loud hailer ah ?