Anyone selling 190E Cosworth?

[Guest Jamozzi]

Anyone knows anybody looking to let go of their 190e cozzies? Either 2.3 or 2.5. I saw some expired posts on sgcarmart but have no idea what the status of those are as they are quite dated.

Appreciate any leads!

[Guest benzw124]

Theres one on sgcarmart now.

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=217709&DL=1000

Owner is asking 48k which seems rather high given that its COE is expiring in April next year and PQP is around 70k now. All in you are looking at more than 10k depreciation per year which I think is crazy considering you can get many other cars for the same depreciation a year on the secondhand market albeit being less interesting. Dont get me wrong I love these cars but at that kind of price, one has to consider real hard.

[Guest Jamozzi]

Thanks benzw124! Viewed the car today actually. Condition was pretty good, smooth acceleration and gear changes, original SLS, bit of rust on the rear but no deal breaker. Only gripe like you said is the price+PQP, and that the car has done 290km!, and is like the 6th or 7th owner.

Wonder if I should wait for a better one to come along. Probably gonna check out the car again but i'm thinking if any experts would be willing to come along??

[Guest benzw124]

These cars are made to last with proper maintenance so I wouldnt worry about the mileage on it. My normal 190e which was already very fun to drive had around the same mileage on it and it was still going strong untill it got totaled last year by a lorry. My current w124 has nearly 400k on it now and I still use it as a daily driver so these cars were really made to last. I would only worry about the single row timing chain present on early 2.3s as they must follow a very strict replacement schedule. I think you have to do the chains and guides every 50k if im not wrong for the single row ones. The number of owners dont really matter as condition is everything. Make sure everything is up to standard especially the SLS. The system is not very complicated but most local mechanics do not know how to work on it due to its rarity. A good friend of mine had to drop 15k to rebuild his SLS system on a w126 a few years back at C&C as no one else he went to knew how to do it.

I still think 48k is on the extremely high side considering that only cosworths in mint condition go for that kind of price in the UK. I saw a 2.3-16 with a modified auto gearbox a few years back in really bad shape but it went for around 15k only IIRC. Another 15k could have easily brought it back up to spec mechanically and it would still cost less than this car. If you are really interested in this car, I would suggest going in with your size 10s and bid him real hard. No offense if the owner is here but thats just my opinion anyway.

[g8crasher]

I'm pretty sure after viewing the pictures that this is the car that used to belong to a friend of mine before the current owner.

I can tell you that the car was basically sold from enthusiast to enthusiast with the aim of keeping it stock. Previous owner refused to deal with any potential buyers that even remotely suggested modifying the car.

The period specific wheels are less than a year old and were locally sourced from C&C.

Licence plate matches the car model if this is the correct one we are talking about.

Given the current climate of COE prices, the asking price is no surprise.

Take this 964 911 for example..

http://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info_photos.php?ID=213992&CUR=1

It's been doing the rounds over the last 2 years. IIRC I believe it was sub $100 grand in 2009.

[Guest Jamozzi]

Thanks for the comments guys, very helpful.

I'll probably check the cozzie out again since the first time I saw it was at night and didn't get much time with it.

Here're some of my thoughts, apologies for the lack of organization. I'll just spill what comes to my mind first

1. The person who showed me the car was helpful and friendly, took me for a couple of rounds and answered my questions best as he could. But he didn't strike me as an enthusiast. He did mention he was helping his boss sell the car, so perhaps that's why.

2. I own a classic mini and know the importance of keeping records. Not just for regular services but especially the major overhauls. In this case, there didn't seem to be any with this car (i asked). Which means other than what I see under the hood and the undercarriage, I really have zero clue whats gone on in this car. Claims that the engine has undergone a major overhaul and shocks/suspension is serviced simply cannot be verified. If that's the case, I'll have to assume that some costly replacements need to made pretty soon since there are parts that you simply cannot wait for to fail, else it'll be too expensive when it does. To be fair, the engine sounds smooth to my untrained ears.

3. As far as i can tell, body is in very good condition, save for bits of rust here and there. The sunroof is jammed so that's something that needs fixing. The interior is in good condition although I'm tempted to replace the fabric with the original full leather if I can get my hands on one. Rims are the original, beautiful all round. Will also probably have to replace the pedals even though those are in good condition but its pretty jarring.

4. Lastly, price. Pricing is part of my day job so this part gets to me. Assuming that a good condition cozzie with <100k miles goes for GBP 10,000 pounds in UK, let's apply the 110% tax and shipping and all that hypothetically. I know we can't bring in cars of this age etc etc. So just hypothetically. That brings everything to about SGD 20-25k. Let's apply a premium of 25% just to account for the rarity, that still takes us to roughly 30k. Assuming I can't get a record of whether the timing belts, shocks, engine etc are overhauled, I'll have to invest significant time and effort to get these rechecked. So really I'll pay 40k only if I have proof that the mechanics are top notch still. COE is really out of the picture here since there's almost none left to speak of. While I do agree that it does contribute to the general climate of higher prices, I don't think a car with 5 months to expiry has much bargaining power. I suppose if money is no object then this conversation is alot easier. But alas ... i'm not one of those. Sigh.

Anyone else considering this? I mean, I'm all for saving such classics in Singapore. Would hate to have this lost from our little island.

[Guest Maniac]

Hi,

I'm following this thread with interest, as I have recently considered getting a 190E Cosworth as well.

Personally, the asking price is indeed a bit steep, however, we are in a high COE period, which will probably continue to run for another 6 months or more (depending on the economic climate).

Maintenance for older Mercedes in general are not too bad, as long as you have the right mechanic who knows what to do and more importantly, if you are able to source for the parts. Given that its a Cosworth, the engine parts may be hard to obtain and might require an overseas source/contact.

Other bits for the car might be obtainable either locally or via ebay or from a parts supplier.

The biggest question is where is COE heading. Basically, if you buy the car, you have 5 months or approx 10 bids to decide how you want to pull the trigger. Remember the PQP has to be in full (so, you either need to stand by a lot of cash, unless you are already sitting on a pile of it).

If you are going to buy the car, do invest some time in curing the rust spots, especially if you intend to keep the car long. Our humidity here does not help. One thing you can consider would be to consolidate a list of items that you want to fix, divided between safety related or cosmetic. The safety related items you will want to fix asap. Cosmetic items, except for rust, you can probably put off for a while. Personally, the sunroof issue can probably wait until you are able to diagnose the problem or determine that the fix will not cost you too much.

In the meantime, go have a look around at:

http://www.mb190e16v.com/Templates/Mercedes_the%20car%20index.htm

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/index/

Good luck!

[Guest benzw124]

The interior is original. This was probably a UK car and leather was less popular over there due to winter. The sports check cloth was an option at that time if you did not want leather. I wouldn't change it except for the steering wheel. Since there is no history with the car, you have to prep quite a load of cash for repairs on top of the COE PQP amount. I would also be extremely weary of whatever repairs the owner claims to have done as they cannot be verified. Parts like engine heads and SLS pumps shouldnt be a problem as they are readily available online secondhand. Im pretty sure you can order most of the parts new also through Tye Soon provided you are willing to wait and pay in full first. I just ordered some new parts for my W124 and it took around 3 months to reach which isnt too long. The sunroof besides getting stuck, often leaks like crazy as the rubber pipes shrink with age and are no longer diverting water away from the cabin. Check the A and B pillars and foot wells for water as thats where the pipes run through. The stuck sunroof is a pain to fix. The cable runs the entire length of the car into the boot where the motor is. Most of the time, the cable's insulation breaks apart and jams the whole thing. It takes some creativity and alot of time to get the remnants of the cable out from the conduit. Another problem with the sunroof can be the guide rails. There is a small metal piece that breaks and that affects whole mechanism. Hopefully its just that or a dead motor as it is easier to replace.

Anyway, does this car by any chance have a new matching 190E no plate? I may be able to dig up some history online if its this particular car.

[Guest Jamozzi]

yea i recognize that the seats are original, so its just a personal preference for full leather. I mean, 25 year old fabrics .... erm ... heh heh need i say more?

Thanks for the parts and sunroof info though. Fixing the roof sounds potentially pricey already, but as long as it doesn't leak, probably ok to leave it.

I just texted the owner to double check again. Bought 1 year ago, no receipts/records of any work done, just regular servicing. So i guess that's that.

Will PM you the license plate as i'm not sure whether that info is sensitive or not. Just to play safe.

Again, thanks all for the comments and info!