Pioneer P80 or Alpine 9855

[Guest angela]

My installer recommend me to change my 8-year-old headunit Nakamichi MB-100 to either a Pioneer P80 or Alpine 9855.

Do you think there will be major improvement on my sound quality?

Which one should i go for? Pioneer P80 or Alpine 9855?

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Hello Hum Kau,

hehehehehe.....I like your nick! It sounds so cute!

I am always a Pioneer Man then an Alpine fan....personal preference only nia!

If you are interested in 9855, there's a fairly new 1 week old set with warranty for sale @ $620/-

on the local ICE forum. I dun know the owner! Just wanna show you the link in case you are interested

http://forums.delphiforums.com/CarsSoundSystem/messages?msg=17959.1

[Guest kepiting1sg]

My installer recommend me to change my 8-year-old headunit Nakamichi MB-100 to either a Pioneer P80 or Alpine 9855.

Do you think there will be major improvement on my sound quality?

Which one should i go for? Pioneer P80 or Alpine 9855?

Here's another posting why the owner wanna sell.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/CarsSoundSystem/messages?msg=17939.1

[Guest kepiting1sg]

My installer recommend me to change my 8-year-old headunit Nakamichi MB-100 to either a Pioneer P80 or Alpine 9855.

Do you think there will be major improvement on my sound quality?

Which one should i go for? Pioneer P80 or Alpine 9855?

Here's some reading that interest you on the local DIY Ice Forum

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=diy4fun&msg=8695.1&maxT=1

[Guest angela]

Bro,

Thanks for the advise. I'm just not sure if I'm going to get significant improvement with the change of Headunit. Anyone can advise?

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Bro,

Thanks for the advise. I'm just not sure if I'm going to get significant improvement with the change of Headunit. Anyone can advise?

Dun no what's your system config. & hardwares!

IMHO,

HU do give sig. improvement but the greatest improvement can be from the speakers.

[g8crasher]

My take on the P80 and 9855 is that most head units in the same price bracket offer pretty much the same features. Erm, I guess it's a matter of preference in terms of ease of use and interface.

Uncle KP is spot on - speakers will offer you the most aural improvement that you can actually hear. It also really depends on the type of music you listen to. Well recorded CDs and poorly recorded CDs can be detected quite easily when played back on a good system.

List your equipment bro and then Uncle KP can advise accordingly.

[Guest angela]

Bro,

Thanks for advise. My system is actually quite old (8 years to be precise, so I forgot all the models number already). My amps is 6 channel Rockford, and my front mid and tweeter are MB-Quarts, and my rear speakers are alpine. The whole system was installed by cartoon 8 years ago.

I have recently replaced my 2x10 inch rockford subwoofer with a 12 inch subwoofer box running u-dimension.

I listen to mostly trance or dance music. So the punch is necessary.

Dial911,

You are right about the good CD and bad CD. I feel that a good hi-fi system will amplify the quality of the CD, meaning that it will make a well recorded CD sounds very sweet, and at the same time makes a badly recorded CD sound even worse....that makes my range of CD that I can play on my system very limited.

Anyone else have this problem too?

[Guest mekenics]

rubbish in rubbish out. feed ur cd into a qlty player, the diff can be heard.

if u r willing to stretch ur budget a bit over 1k, i strongly recommend a pioneer P9

its a old HU (>3yrs on avg) but represent gd value for $

copper chasis, 24bit, 31eq, TA, shorter RCA's run....etc

the list goes on...

2things to note when buying them,

make sure the HU face plate mechanism is ok

the transport/ lens reader still function well

(repair cost u 200+) 4 either of the items

[Guest angela]

It is true that speakers are the most important. But again the rest of the items that makes up the ICE are vital too. HU is just like the brain. Speakers are like limps. Without the brain good limps are also not much help. Vice Versa.

Cheers...

[Guest kepiting1sg]

It is true that speakers are the most important. But again the rest of the items that makes up the ICE are vital too. HU is just like the brain. Speakers are like limps. Without the brain good limps are also not much help. Vice Versa.

Cheers...

Imagine putting a 8 track player or cassette tape player playing through the sound system....

IMHO,

For HU you have the Budget range, medium range(S$500 to S$1.5K), medium to mid high range(S$1.5K to S$3K) with/without processors and the "high end" (above S$3K) with their processors.

BTW My ICE system dun come with a HU but only a display panel that is attached to a hide-away tuner or detached as a stand alone display panel.....whahahaha ???

The "brains" come from a Multi CD transport/Processor tucked away nicely in the boot.

[Guest angela]

BTW My ICE system dun come with a HU but only a display panel that is attached to a hide-away tuner or detached as a stand alone display panel.....whahahaha ???

The "brains" come from a Multi CD transport/Processor tucked away nicely in the boot.

Bro,

Can you explain more about your setup?

[Guest kepiting1sg]

BTW My ICE system dun come with a HU but only a display panel that is attached to a hide-away tuner or detached as a stand alone display panel.....whahahaha ???

The "brains" come from a Multi CD transport/Processor tucked away nicely in the boot.

Bro,

Can you explain more about your setup?

My ICE "brains" or the Processor is inbuilt into a CD Transport or you might want to call it a CD Changer.

They are housed in a solid machined aluminium housing (6.5kg) and installed in the boot.

Instead of the normal HU which you can have a detachable face plate (for anti-theft),

I have a detachable face plate which I can detached and place it anywhere in my car as a display panel which

also can take command both from my wireless remote control and wired rotary commander.

This display panel is wired to a control unit together with a wired rotary remote which can be tucked away or

mounted together with the hideaway Tuner.

The rotary commander will take commands On/Off, for song track & cd selection, mute, source selction, EQ settings sellection, X-over network settings setting selection.

The wireless remote will do all the commands of the rotary commander and do settings for setups (clock, display, fonts, brightness display, etc) and to do setting for x-over network (up to -72Db/octace), Eq setting (12 bands parametric Eq with adjustable Q factor), Time alignment setting (High,Mid,Low).

The control unit is then wired to the Processor at the back of the car.

The control unit can also be mounted together with the hide away tuner and tucked away.

So all you can see is a display panel which you can place on your din slot on the console,

or with it's stand and place it on the dash board or any place you want in the car.

If you are a tua tow kay who is chauffeured, you may want to have this panel installed behind

to control the sound system while sitting on the rear passenger seats.

[Guest mekenics]

BTW My ICE system dun come with a HU but only a display panel that is attached to a hide-away tuner or detached as a stand alone display panel.....whahahaha ???

The "brains" come from a Multi CD transport/Processor tucked away nicely in the boot.

Bro,

Can you explain more about your setup?

My ICE "brains" or the Processor is inbuilt into a CD Transport or you might want to call it a CD Changer.

They are housed in a solid machined aluminium housing (6.5kg) and installed in the boot.

Instead of the normal HU which you can have a detachable face plate (for anti-theft),

I have a detachable face plate which I can detached and place it anywhere in my car as a display panel which

also can take command both from my wireless remote control and wired rotary commander.

This display panel is wired to a control unit together with a wired rotary remote which can be tucked away or

mounted together with the hideaway Tuner.

The rotary commander will take commands On/Off, for song track & cd selection, mute, source selction, EQ settings sellection, X-over network settings setting selection.

The wireless remote will do all the commands of the rotary commander and do settings for setups (clock, display, fonts, brightness display, etc) and to do setting for x-over network (up to -72Db/octace), Eq setting (12 bands parametric Eq with adjustable Q factor), Time alignment setting (High,Mid,Low).

The control unit is then wired to the Processor at the back of the car.

The control unit can also be mounted together with the hide away tuner and tucked away.

So all you can see is a display panel which you can place on your din slot on the console,

or with it's stand and place it on the dash board or any place you want in the car.

If you are a tua tow kay who is chauffeured, you may want to have this panel installed behind

to control the sound system while sitting on the rear passenger seats.

unker u forgot to add it smthg like that will cost u a cherry QQ when new!

[Guest angela]

Ph@tboy ]

BTW My ICE system dun come with a HU but only a display panel that is attached to a hide-away tuner or detached as a stand alone display panel.....whahahaha ???

The "brains" come from a Multi CD transport/Processor tucked away nicely in the boot.

Bro,

Can you explain more about your setup?

My ICE "brains" or the Processor is inbuilt into a CD Transport or you might want to call it a CD Changer.

They are housed in a solid machined aluminium housing (6.5kg) and installed in the boot.

Instead of the normal HU which you can have a detachable face plate (for anti-theft),

I have a detachable face plate which I can detached and place it anywhere in my car as a display panel which

also can take command both from my wireless remote control and wired rotary commander.

This display panel is wired to a control unit together with a wired rotary remote which can be tucked away or

mounted together with the hideaway Tuner.

The rotary commander will take commands On/Off, for song track & cd selection, mute, source selction, EQ settings sellection, X-over network settings setting selection.

The wireless remote will do all the commands of the rotary commander and do settings for setups (clock, display, fonts, brightness display, etc) and to do setting for x-over network (up to -72Db/octace), Eq setting (12 bands parametric Eq with adjustable Q factor), Time alignment setting (High,Mid,Low).

The control unit is then wired to the Processor at the back of the car.

The control unit can also be mounted together with the hide away tuner and tucked away.

So all you can see is a display panel which you can place on your din slot on the console,

or with it' wrote:

unker u forgot to add it smthg like that will cost u a cherry QQ when new!

Now I'm impressed. Who was the installer of this system? Did it really cost a QQ?

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Now I'm impressed. Who was the installer of this system? Did it really cost a QQ?

Who was the installer of this system? Did it really cost a QQ?

It was no where near to a QQ.

If it was a brand new ICE system, the hardware + installation will cost somewhere near to a QQ. ;D

Cartoon aka Elson Lee of New Generation used to work on my old W124 for couple of years.

Each ICE project on my old W124 takes anything from 6 to 9 months for completion.

I did won an ICE competition in KL with my old ride & ICE prepared by New Generation.

My ride came in 1st from a pool of nearly 30 cars from MY & SG.

It has a total 5200 WRMS with 2 ICE systems. One for SQ listening and one for blasting.

Specially imported 225 ampere external regulated High Output Alternators was flown in

from the US to supply the needed current to run the full ICE system c/w 4 Deep Discharge

Optima Yellow batteries.

When I bought the W203 in 2004, IMHO he was spending too much time on

Patrick's car of Imperial Concept and at the same time preparing a few other cars for the MY IASCA competition.

I still have a good relation with New Gen. I have been happy, contended & satisfied with the work

& time spend on my ICE projects by Cartoon of New Generation.

Due to time constraint, for my W203 I ended up going to his former boss Samuel Tan of Swift Motion.

Swift Motion does all kinds of cars probably QQ too, includes Jap Cars to Mercs, BMWs, Porsches, Ferraris

and even Rolls Royce. He trained ICE judges, give talk @ audio seminars and promote ICE around the ASEAN region.

The amount of money I paid for the fabrications, wirings, cables, tuning and workmanship meet my expectations & satisfaction.

Like I was trying to hint to you earlier, that this kind of "expectations & satisfaction" is difficult to quantify

by the sum of money paid.

IMHO Kiam Kow,

1st of all, I got nothing to sell to you or promote to you like MLM......wahahahahha!!!! ;D ;D

End of the day, you have to ask yourself how serious are you into ICE.

If you are going into "serious ICE" and not only how much money you are going to fork out

but also the amount of time you are going to spend setting up your ICE.

If you are not into serious ICE a budget of about S$2K to S$3K+ could get U quite a satisfying ICE system.

Get a "decent HU" with time alignment capabilities like Ph@tboy Clarion HX-D2, a "sensible priced" 2 way active front component system, a 12" sub (forget about U-Dimension), a 4 channel amp for your front speakers and a Class D amp for your sub.

Get a tuner with good ears to tune your system and "U are home!"

U do not necessary go to New Generation or Swift Motion.

There're quite a few reputable ICE installers out there.

If U are a D.I.Yer, the local ICE D.I.Yer forum people there can assist you.

They have managed to D.I.Y their ICE to the extent of winning ICE competitions.

The forum "home tuner", we call him our F1 tuner should join this forum pretty soon.

His boss just bought him a W124 and another good ICE DIYer W124NOOB - W124 just joined this forum.

At times you can get some good 2nd stuff over the local ICE forums.

You can go muck around and not feeling satisfied and you may ended up spending much more than you actually intended to.

Feel free to PM me if U got Qs and hopefully I can answer them for you.

That's stupid me in my old W124 & winning the competition in KL.

[Guest angela]

First of all, thank you very much for sharing these information with us. This is indeed very educational for newbies like myself. Really appreciate it.

Just some update on my side, after replacing my subwoofer (despite the fact that it is a U-dimension), I was actually quite happy with the result. I'm not the golden ear type, so even though my Nakamichi doesn't have any time alignment and the only tuning is bass, treble and mid, I actually find myself enjoying the music.

On the other hand, I sat in a friend's car that has a pioneer headunit with time-alignment and was disappointed to say that the sound was a little hollow comparing to the Naka. Naka has a much fuller sound and the feel and presence is much more real. I was reading the SPL magazine….even the macintosh system doesn’t have any time alignment. So I believe system like Naka and Macintosh may not be meant for competition, but doesn’t mean they cannot play mind-blowing music.

So this leaves me with 2 upgrade to do:

1. I’m looking to replace my front MB-Quart component speakers as it is 8 years old and having a tid of crack sound when turn up the volume. Any good replacement to recommend? If I go for some 300+ rainbow speakers, will I be on par with my MB-Quart? Try not to spend too much money on hi-fi these days.

2. I will be getting my new E230 next 2 weeks (looking forward to it), and I will be keeping my current E200. Any recommendation what can be done on the new E230? I was told that to keep the current 6-disc front loading changer, I need to use a Alpine H701 processor to tune the sound. The whole setup would cost 5k or more. Is there a cheaper alternative that I can still enjoy the music?

[Guest kepiting1sg]

All the top end Pioneer & Alphine HU/Processor combinations runs into near S$8K territory. The you have the 2nd level, they are near the S$3K mark.

All of them has time alignment features.

The 33 1/3% rule stand i.e if U have good hardwares and you don't have a good tuner, what U have may have will not be good.

IMHO,

If U are not a discerning listener your $300+ Rainbow components will be better than your old MBQuarts.

For your new E230, I have replied in your other thread.

Hope this helps.

[Guest angela]

Wow...8k is a lot of money to pay for a HU. But I guess if one is looking for the best, that's what one has to pay.

[Guest kepiting1sg]

Wow...8k is a lot of money to pay for a HU. But I guess if one is looking for the best, that's what one has to pay.

Nowadays many people out there want z-best for their car audio.

See some of Cartoon installs over this link.

http://teamdls-sg.blogspot.com/

In the recent heats for the SG EMMA(European Mobil Music Association) competition held @ Kallang

a few weeks back, many competitors were decked out with Alpine F1 HU & Processors (S$8K).

And the truth again, not necessary all of them win. Their tuner has a big part to play (33 1/3%)

Cartoon was the Head Judge - so he cannot send any car in for the competition ;D ;D ;D

The next heats to be held that month May, expect to see some will come with Pioneer

flagship ODR(Optical Digital Reference) HU/Processors also around this price range.

Cartoon this time round will not be doing judging, he will be sending his Pioneer ODR's cars.. ;D ;D

In the mid 90s, Sony Mobile Audio Engineer were asked to design a Sound System without

taking cost into considerations.

The old Sony set that came out in 1996/97 comes complete with

Processor, amps & speakers without installation goes for about S$25,000 from Sony Singapore.

This is how the complete set look like.

Can you imagine 10 years back you can have a HU with full color LCD display!!

[Guest angela]

Firstly thank you to Unker for props. I super paiseh to post during office hours as he is my super big boss. LOL

hence i will keep this post short.

1) There is a difference between #F1 status HU and processor and the next lower processor, the H701. After tuning a few #F1 H990 and H900 sets, and then working on my H700 and H701, I can say it totally outclasses the H700 and H701. Having said that, i can also say that out of 20 people with the #F1, maybe 5 people can reap its performance potential. The same goes for the H701 and H700. The same goes for all the high end prioneer P9, P90 and ODR. tehre is a big difference, but having an ODR doesn't mean you get full performance. you still need to know what you are doing. There are very few shops that can do wonders with the equipment.

2) KP is absolutely right also. great sound does not have to cost a bomb. you can buy used, you can buy lower end stuff and fully optimise it.

3) You simply cannot judge a nak HU to a pioneer HU from one car to another. the state of tune, the amplifiers, the speakers, the setup.. EVERYTHING affects the end result. so keep an open mind about any brand. many are good. features are not the same though. find the features you like, then buy that system. the XES uses parametric EQ.. for those who can tune it, great. for those who prefer 31 band graphic, there are alternatives. for those who prefer to be able to swap L/R phase individually, there is the #F1. if you like the convenience of tuning with a notebook, again there are options.

the important thing is not to rush into ICE. this is not a one time deal. like KP said, it's really like renovating your home. you will live with the results and it WILL COST an arm and a leg once you get serious. Knowing what you are buying is the best advice anyone can give.

[Guest mekenics]

FYI,

there is a new "pine-near" set to be launch. dunno the name of the model but its known to be an ala "1/2 set ODR". there is no HU but jus the ODR processor & a faceplate control. sounds jus like a 701 setup but with almost identical ODR features! dun come in cheap though! est around the 5k range, but sure u will not need to rip out ur factory unit. still gets u a audiophile sound with its claimed intergration capabilities. the 9855R is also due to launch soon.

Keep a lookout for them....

[Guest kepiting1sg]

FYI,

there is a new "pine-near" set to be launch. dunno the name of the model but its known to be an ala "1/2 set ODR". there is no HU but jus the ODR processor & a faceplate control. sounds jus like a 701 setup but with almost identical ODR features! dun come in cheap though! est around the 5k range, but sure u will not need to rip out ur factory unit. still gets u a audiophile sound with its claimed intergration capabilities. the 9855R is also due to launch soon.

Keep a lookout for them....

IMHO,

I may not think much of it.

The quality of source to intergrate with the processor is important.

I play my W203 stock system(6 CD changer) through my XES processor and I dun like the SQ

coming out from it (despite neutral setting i.e 0 treble 0 bass) or it could be the quality of the

HI/LO RCA convertor (from David Navone) that I am using. ???

The stock ICE system without RCA output sucks!!!

Cheers!